Transcript - Episode 1

Alex Evans MD (00:12)
Well, hello to everyone out there in the universe. This is Alex Evans, and I am joined by two of some great individuals. I've got Candace Seizure, I've got Daphne Daffodil Baez, and in the background, I've got Scott Patterson. And we are here to present the inaugural podcast for Apex Health.

We're concentrating on healthcare in general, looking at or trying to break down what it is about healthcare that affects the community, affects

individuals, but on the grand scheme also affects everyone. We're going to be talking

Candice (00:51)
That's what.

Alex Evans MD (00:51)
to CEOs, we're going to be talking to insurance companies, we're going be talking to several people across the spectrum, trying to break it down and see what's really the issues that you want to know about.

Today in our inaugural podcast, we have

Candice (01:07)
Mm-hmm.

Alex Evans MD (01:07)
a great individual that's been a friend of mine forever. She's the CEO of a local hospital. Her name is Daffido Baez, and she is

Candice (01:16)
Mm-hmm.

Alex Evans MD (01:17)
the CEO of Fort Washington Hospital. And I'm gonna let her go into her introduction a little more and tell her a little bit about herself. But before that, we also have as my co-host, one of my co-hosts.

Candace Caesar, who is a professional mental health provider, and she's gonna be also letting us know some things that exp that attack us from the mental health side of things. But Daffodil, take it away. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Candice (01:48)
Mm-hmm.

Daffodil Baez (01:49)
greetings everyone. It's such a pleasure to be here. thank you for the invitation, Alex, to join this conversation. So proud to see what you're doing. Candace, it's so lovely to see you every time. Thank you for joining us. And Scott, such a pleasure in meeting you. as Dr. Evans mentioned, my name is Daffodil Baez. Currently I serve as the president of the Fort Washington Medical Center in Southern Maryland. in responsible located in gorgeous Prince George's County.

Candice (02:16)
Mm-hmm.

Daffodil Baez (02:17)
But like other folks on this call, I'm founder of a couple other ventures, including Fortress Therapeutics, which is a wellness herbal remedies organization, as well as Supera Health, where I provide early stage consulting for companies as as well as some general consulting for Latino sensitivity in particular for organizations. I've been in healthcare my entire life. I'm one of those just grown-up healthcare nerds.

before

high school, I'm originally from Texas. was on the I wanted to be like you when I grew up, Alex. I I wanted to be a surgeon, but the Lord had other plans and so I ended up securing a master's in public health as well as an MBA and have been transitioned from started off on the payer side actually, working for one of the major insurance companies here in the in the US, then transitioned to practice operations.

growing from primary care to behavioral health, multi-specialty practice, academic medicine, and am now responsible as I mentioned for a portfolio that includes hospital, ambulatory surgery center, and outpatient care.

Alex Evans MD (03:19)
Wow, that's an

choice.

Daffodil Baez (03:23)
I've seen a lot so far. Yeah. It's been an interesting ride.

Candice (03:23)
Absolutely.

what I was

Okay. So one thing we wanted to do differently in this podcast, Daffodil, and thank you so much for telling us about your history because we get a really clear view of who you are. But we wanted to talk about people, not just titles.

I want to ask you this question. When was the last time?

that you simply sat with a patient, not as a CEO, but just as another human being.

Daffodil Baez (04:00)
I appreciate that question, Candace,

Candice (04:02)
Mm-hmm.

Daffodil Baez (04:02)
for a couple of reasons. the first is that I tell my team all the time, you know, we classify people as patients, right? They get this label as patient when they walk in through our doors, but frankly, they're humans, right? And in particular at a hospital like ours, which is a smaller community hospital.

You're very frequently running into the teachers, your fellow church members, your neighbors,

Candice (04:26)
Mm-hmm.

Daffodil Baez (04:27)
the small business owners, right? These are human beings and they just happen to fall into the category of patient when they're under your care. To answer your

Candice (04:35)
Okay.

Daffodil Baez (04:36)
question directly, I round frequently on the floor. and so I

Candice (04:39)
And.

Daffodil Baez (04:40)
had a lovely conversation actually with with one of our patients two days ago. but

Candice (04:45)
Mm-hmm.

Daffodil Baez (04:46)
this is this is not

unusual, right? It's it's

Candice (04:49)
Mm-hmm.

Daffodil Baez (04:49)
how I part of how I like to keep the pulse of how we're doing as an organization. Sure, I you know, I look at the data, I read the surveys, I read every single comment that comes back from our patient surveys on a weekly basis. but I also just like to sit right with with the folks in the community,

Candice (05:05)
Mm-hmm.

Daffodil Baez (05:06)
the folks who, you know, cause when they're coming to you, a lot of times that's the toughest day, right? Or one of the toughest days

Candice (05:11)
Yes.

Daffodil Baez (05:12)
of their week, their month, their life.

and so connecting with them on and displaying that compassion really helps to clarify the fact then that they are in good hands, safe hands, hands that they can trust, with a team that they can trust to do what's in their best interest and what's in their family's best interest.

Candice (05:31)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Alex Evans MD (05:33)
Wow,

Alex Evans MD & Candice Caesar PMHNP (05:35)
So Daffodil, thank you so much for that great answer. And that that's as that's so poignant because it gets the meat of the of the situation where you know at the end of the day, patients slash people are what make up healthcare, right?

Candice (05:51)
You're here.

Alex Evans MD & Candice Caesar PMHNP (05:53)
if you could think in your mind, what in to you makes the best CEO? Like what

What about a CEO makes it makes you good?

Candice (06:05)
We will take a

Daffodil Baez (06:06)
Well,

that's that's a multi-layered question for sure, Doctor Evans.

Alex Evans MD & Candice Caesar PMHNP (06:10)
Okay.

Daffodil Baez (06:11)
And I and I I might I might slip and call you Alex every once in a while, but so

Alex Evans MD & Candice Caesar PMHNP (06:16)
Please,

this is a this is a laid back situation.

Daffodil Baez (06:19)
Thank you. You know, le leadership in healthcare today requires quite a bit from the folks who are sitting in those seats. And one of the conversations that I have with my team on a regular basis as well is that you know, we are all leaders, we all have the capacity to be leaders. You don't necessarily have to have it as a title, right? You can self-lead.

Candice (06:40)
Mm-hmm.

Daffodil Baez (06:42)
and what leadership requires

today is is a few highlights in in my opinion. the first is operational discipline. so within

Alex Evans MD & Candice Caesar PMHNP (06:52)
Mm.

Daffodil Baez (06:53)
that concept is included the fact that you are tracking your performance, that you understand what you are attempting to achieve, and that you have the discipline to stick to the objectives that you have outlined for yourself and your team without going off on side quests.

Okay, because side quests are often expensive and can distract your focus. And in a world where your resources are limited, and resources in healthcare, particularly for the folks who are on the front line or closest to the care delivery, are limited. They have limited time, they have limited energy, and there's a significant amount of demand. it's important for you to stay focused.

So, operational discipline, I would say, is definitely one of the one of the main things. second, I would say transparency. I have very open conversations with my team. It's part of my personal brand. We need to know what we're up against and the problem that we're trying to solve. We need everyone rowing in the same direction. and so

Alex Evans MD & Candice Caesar PMHNP (07:54)
Mm.

Daffodil Baez (07:54)
I believe that you actually get more as a team when you have clear and candid conversations amongst yourselves. so that

you know, you can stay focused on the on the target, right? and then finally

Alex Evans MD & Candice Caesar PMHNP (08:05)
Wow.

Daffodil Baez (08:06)
I would say that there's there's definitely a degree of you know

Flexibility, curiosity, creativity that's needed because we're facing challenges and situations that we have not faced before. And so frequently there is no playbook. And so you have to craft the solution, you have to architect the path, right? It's not already pre-identified

Alex Evans MD & Candice Caesar PMHNP (08:33)
Is it doing this?

Daffodil Baez (08:36)
for you. and so having that sense of

I call it cognitive flexibility is is critically important to being able to react well in today's environment.

Candice (08:50)
said something, you know, you know, piqued my interest a little bit there when you talked about, you know, the amount of flexibility that you needed in healthcare. I'm thinking about COVID and the fact that, you know, lot of companies that were able to adapt, those are the companies that came through the pandemic, but the companies that weren't able to

Daffodil Baez (09:08)
Yeah.

Candice (09:08)
adapt, you know, they, you know, got run through. So,

Adaptability is really, really important. And like you said before, know, like not only knowing where you want to go, but understanding the analytics in this society, you know, is also very important. Yeah. But Alex, are you back?

Daffodil Baez (09:25)
Mm-hmm.

Candice (09:26)
Yeah. That was just a comment.

Alex Evans (09:31)
talk about

Daffodil Baez (09:30)
Thank you.

Alex Evans (09:32)
being able to direct the team, one focus being open and expressing itself in those manners. Tell me a little bit more about when you you have all these dynamic changes going on in the government and as far as health requirements, etc. How do you deliver that

those information to your team but then keep the morale or keep their their interests, keep them basically motivated to keep going.

Daffodil Baez (10:04)
That's great question. So remaining motivated in the face of a highly complex, highly regulated industry can be a little bit of a balancing act sometimes because again, it never feels like you have enough. It never feels like you have enough money. It never feels like you have enough staff. It never feels like you have enough time, right, to do everything that you want to do. But what we need to realize, and what I wish more people

Candice (10:08)
And.

Daffodil Baez (10:30)
In the general public, took a moment to reflect on sometimes is that you

Candice (10:33)
Any.

Daffodil Baez (10:35)
don't go into healthcare as a selfish person. Right?

The people who are in healthcare writ large, right? 99.9999 are folks

Candice (10:46)
it.

Daffodil Baez (10:47)
who are motivated by an internal moral imperative to leave the world in a better place than where they found it.

Candice (10:56)
Absolutely.

Daffodil Baez (10:56)
And so

Alex Evans (10:56)
That's a great

Daffodil Baez (10:57)
reminding

Alex Evans (10:57)
answer.

Daffodil Baez (10:58)
ourselves, right? Reminding ourselves of why we do what we do, why we chose this path. so many of us could be in other industries, getting paid better, frankly. but we wanted to give back. We wanted to give back to our community, we wanted to make an impact in someone's life, and so reminding ourselves that when people come to us.

on their toughest days with their most difficult challenges, where they truly depend on our expertise to make a difference in their lives, right? Those are the things that matter. And as long as you keep that as a focus, sometimes you'll hear the phrase, you know, patient focused, and and that's part of what it can be, right? If you if you remember that you are there to make a difference at the human who's at the center of whatever that encounter might be, and that if you

deliver your expertise. You have done what you came here to do, what you were put here to do, then it's been a good day. And so that's that's how I that's part of what I remind my team about is that someone's day today is better because you were in it.

Alex Evans (12:06)
Wow, that that's a great way to look at it. Now, you mentioned money, and it's so interesting because unfortunately you see these ads and so forth, it makes it sound like hospitals are overflowing with money and the people who work there are just rich and so forth. I mean, talk to me a little bit about the the financial strains and the and the narrow margins that you have to try to maintain.

Candice (12:10)
Thank you. you

Alex Evans (12:32)
to stay afloat. What is what are some of the the obstacles and the challenges in running a hospital?

Candice (12:38)
Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Daffodil Baez (12:40)
So, okay, let's first of all level set the financial picture for most of healthcare

compared to other industries. Okay. And it sounds like the question is mostly directed towards the healthcare delivery component of the industry. In other industries, right, in publicly traded companies, even in privately owned companies, you're usually targeting a profit margin of something like 10 to 15%, right? That's kind of like a standard, fairly healthy

Candice (13:05)
Okay.

Daffodil Baez (13:07)
profit margin.

In high margin industries, you know, you might be lucky to get something up to you know 25 or even 30% of a profit margin. In healthcare, you are blessed, you are lucky if you are consistently running a profit margin of two

Candice (13:14)
Okay.

Daffodil Baez (13:24)
to three percent. Lucky. Okay.

Candice (13:26)
Wow. Wow.

Alex Evans (13:27)
That's

Daffodil Baez (13:29)
And many hospitals, many hospitals are running operationally either at very close to break-even.

Alex Evans (13:36)
Mm-hmm.

Daffodil Baez (13:37)
Or below

break-even, which means that they have to be subsidized by

Alex Evans (13:41)
Mm.

Daffodil Baez (13:41)
other components of their system. So hospitals as a whole, in general, are not massive profit-driving engines. And the reason why they're not massive profit driving engines is because the overhead is so high. The equipment,

Candice (13:57)
Yes.

Alex Evans (13:58)
Mm.

Daffodil Baez (14:00)
the staff,

Alex Evans (14:01)
Mm.

Daffodil Baez (14:01)
The facilities

costs, I cannot tell you the utilities costs for our hospitals, like literally the electric and water bills have been going through the roof. The same thing that you see going, you know, happening at home, where people have this public outright cry about their utility bills. Same thing is happening at the hospital, except it's a $30,000 water bill,

Candice (14:22)
Yeah.

Daffodil Baez (14:24)
right? It's a $50,000

Alex Evans (14:24)
Wow.

Daffodil Baez (14:25)
electric bill, right? So

Alex Evans (14:27)
Mm.

Daffodil Baez (14:29)
And we're we're a small hospital, right? We're not even a you know 150, 200, 300 bed academic, you know, facility like like you're at, Dr. Evans. So there are multiple factors, right? There is not enough supply of the talent that you need, and that creates additional competition for that supply. And so there are there are many factors that make running a hospital a quite expensive endeavor.

Candice (14:35)
All right. or

Daffodil Baez (14:57)
Which is why it's actually so important that communities become informed about the healthcare infrastructure that is present in their community and highlight how to protect it. Because once you lose it, the cost of attempting to reinstate or reactivate that infrastructure is very high.

Candice (15:20)
Wow, wow. And you know, and when,

Alex Evans (15:20)
Wow. Wow. Yeah, that's that's a excellent

Candice (15:24)
yeah. Yeah, and when resources become tighter.

We know that the patients feel that. In what ways do you think patients feel those resources becoming tighter?

Daffodil Baez (15:39)
The first without question is access. So

You will have noticed that there's you know many articles, research, etc., around the fact that private practices, for example, can no longer afford many times to run to remain private. They have to join larger systems in order for their operations to be subsidized. hospitals, many rural hospitals and many smaller community hospitals are closing down. And it's because of some of these.

Cost pressures. And so what that means as a community member, right, is that you are losing access to the points of entry into care. You no longer have that doctor's office that's right down the street available to you. You no longer have that hospital that's within a 10 or 15 minute drive, right? You have to drive 30 minutes, an hour, right, to get to a healthcare facility. The downstream effect of that is that number one.

people do not engage in primary care and preventive care as frequently as they should, many times, because

Alex Evans (16:47)
Mm.

Daffodil Baez (16:48)
of that lack of access. And number two, they delay their care, right? So they're like, it's just a little pain. I'll just take, you know, a pain reliever, right? And I don't really pay attention to it, or you know, I don't know if that's really a lump. I'm probably fine, you know, I don't really need to be screened or checked or scanned. I can go another year.

And when you do then present yourself to a healthcare professional, unfortunately, you know, the situation has reached a higher level of acuity and it becomes

Alex Evans (17:16)
Right.

Daffodil Baez (17:17)
both more expensive and more complicated to arrive at a successful outcome.

Alex Evans (17:22)
You know, saying that just hits right at home for me because unfortunately I see these individuals when they come in they'll have abdominal pain or they'll have like you mentioned something that just they just let go. I won't get the screening, I will do and when I come they see me, they've got advanced colon cancer, I've gotta take out the entire colon, they've got lumps in on their breasts that are now you know, large leasing breast cancers that should

Or just even if it's bowel obstruction, it's now they're they're an extremist. They're, you know, they're about to die when I'm taking an OR versus just doing something of fixing the hernia electively, coming in and, you know, they go to the primary care doctor, the primary care, yeah, that's something that Dr. Evans can do. And you go down to the street and see me. So the it's literally a big shift. And I know that the that individuals are now using the emergency room as their primary care.

instead of going to the primary care doctor because again they don't have the access to care and also they don't have the insurance. You know, speaking of that, you know what do you think about this some of the changes when it comes to insurance? I I was reading an article that says that now it'll be about there another thirteen million people are gonna be without care once they make the changes in access to care with Medicaid.

Candice (18:37)
Great.

Daffodil Baez (18:25)
Mm-hmm.

Alex Evans (18:43)
You know, what w you know any thoughts on that? How how is that gonna affect you as a hospital when you're coming in, you're seeing all these people now, same people that they don't have health insurance?

Candice (18:52)
Mm-hmm.

Daffodil Baez (18:55)
Yes, you know, the some of the policy changes are quite challenging, particularly for healthcare delivery providers, the the care delivery portion of the industry.

Candice (19:10)
Okay.

Daffodil Baez (19:11)
because what it requires in hospitals specifically, if someone presents to your ED, right, to your emergency department, you cannot turn them away. It is it is first of all illegal.

Candice (19:20)
Yeah.

Daffodil Baez (19:22)
To turn them away. And second, I mean, we took an oath, right? So for us, it's also a moral imperative that we are going to see you

Alex Evans (19:27)
Right. Mm-hmm.

Daffodil Baez (19:30)
if you arrive at our at our location or any other hospital location. however, if you have then outlaid the resources, right? So

Alex Evans (19:39)
Mm-hmm.

Daffodil Baez (19:40)
we've utilized supplies, we might have delivered care, we've utilized staff time, physician

Alex Evans (19:44)
Perfecto.

Daffodil Baez (19:47)
time, and we don't get reimbursed for that care.

Everyone understands

Candice (19:51)
Mm-hmm.

Daffodil Baez (19:52)
that if you give a service as a business, but you're not getting paid for that service, that

Alex Evans (19:56)
Mm.

Daffodil Baez (19:57)
becomes unsustainable. Right? And so

Candice (19:59)
Yes.

Alex Evans (19:59)
Right.

Daffodil Baez (20:00)
what happens is that it then places additional stress on those care delivery providers within their systems and within their communities, and it makes it very, very difficult to continue. How does that then impact a care delivery organization? Okay, well, you might have wanted to buy new equipment.

Candice (20:02)
Thank you.

Daffodil Baez (20:21)
You can no

Alex Evans (20:21)
Mm.

Daffodil Baez (20:22)
longer afford to do so. You might have wanted to expand a service line, you no longer have the capital to do that. You might have wanted to open up a new site of care. Your margin got eaten up. And so you're going to have to stay where you are, right? And so it it's those kinds of very practical solutions, right? You might have wanted to hire more staff, right? But if

Alex Evans (20:35)
Wow.

Candice (20:35)
Yeah.

Alex Evans (20:41)
Hmm, right, right.

Daffodil Baez (20:43)
but if you're not getting reimbursed for a service that you're providing, right? That that's

Candice (20:47)
Thank you.

Daffodil Baez (20:48)
a that's a

business model it's a financial model that doesn't that doesn't work so

Candice (20:52)
.

Alex Evans (20:54)
Yeah, and it's circular, yeah.

Daffodil Baez (20:56)
and it's circular so my my message you know to the community is a couple of things number one is become informed become informed about the healthcare infrastructure in your community look at ratings look at quality scores

Alex Evans (21:06)
Mm.

Candice (21:06)
Yes. Yes.

Daffodil Baez (21:15)
And actively make decisions about where you choose to get your care based on those scores. Because we need to support the the institutions that deliver high quality care. Second, take care of yourself as much as possible. Please.

Alex Evans (21:31)
Mm.

Daffodil Baez (21:32)
It is so much more effective, so much more effective to be preventive and proactive in the care that you give yourself and your family, right?

Than waiting for an issue to come up. It is definitely,

Candice (21:44)
Thank you.

Alex Evans (21:47)
Mm.

Daffodil Baez (21:48)
because let me tell you, someone might say, my God, I cannot believe that a primary care cash pay visit, let's say that I don't have insurance at all, right? I choose to pay cash for my annual doctor's visit. I cannot believe that it's $150 or $200 or $300. Okay.

Alex Evans (22:06)
Mm.

Daffodil Baez (22:08)
I guarantee you those $150 or $200 or $300.

Definitely cheaper than the multi-thousand dollar bill that you might get. If you show up

Candice (22:16)
It's a dollar bill.

Daffodil Baez (22:18)
to the ED, okay, with

Alex Evans (22:19)
Exactly.

Daffodil Baez (22:20)
a much more serious issue, right? That could have been caught much, much easier and much, much sooner. So become informed, right? Advocate for

Alex Evans (22:27)
You are preaching.

Candice (22:30)
.

Daffodil Baez (22:31)
the for the companies that are doing the the providers that are doing well by your community in your area and be proactive in your own advocate in your care.

Candice (22:41)
Absolutely. Thank you, Daffodil, for sharing

Alex Evans (22:42)
Wow. Yeah.

Candice (22:44)
that and for laying out the imperative, how important it is for people to take care

Daffodil Baez (22:47)
Yeah, yeah.

Candice (22:48)
of themselves and to take ownership of their health care. Also, in paying attention to what's going on within their community health, because when we don't have access, we're literally

sort of cutting off our ability to have preventative care. So I

Daffodil Baez (23:03)
Mm-hmm.

Candice (23:04)
want to bring it to the staff, the doctors, the nurses that work for your company. How are you doing on recruitment? How are we doing on retention of these employees? How are we protecting against burnout, right? With everything that is going on.

Daffodil Baez (23:24)
Yeah, that's a great question, Candace. we

Candice (23:26)
I'm

Daffodil Baez (23:27)
put we put quite a bit of effort of intentionality around attempting to retain our team members. We understand that people without a doubt are our most valuable asset.

Candice (23:40)
and

Daffodil Baez (23:41)
and so we do things like you know things like, you know, internal recognitions, right?

Candice (23:48)
Mm.

Daffodil Baez (23:48)
even small little celebrations, right?

y highlighting the the the small wins right and the the small moments of those unsung heroes right that that do the

Alex Evans (23:58)
Mm.

Daffodil Baez (23:59)
work every day we have official programs right for for physician well being for staff well being where we we talk about the fact that yes this stress is here right and how do we decompress that what are your and everyone's a little bit different right so for me that might look like

you know, going for a hike. For someone else that might look like, you know, decompressing with tea and and and some reading time, right? for others it might be, you know, something else, right? Pikahobi. But you know acknowledging and identifying what works for you as

Candice (24:26)
Okay. Yeah.

Alex Evans (24:26)
T and reading.

Daffodil Baez (24:35)
an individual to pour back into yourself so that you then have something left over to pour into others. There's you know

Candice (24:39)
Thank you.

Daffodil Baez (24:47)
We have we have a demographic shift that's happening in this country. It's actually a worldwide demographic shift. Some folks

Candice (24:51)
you.

Daffodil Baez (24:56)
have have named it the silver tsunami, right? Some of us already experience this, right, as having to caretake for our parents or or grandparents, right? But a lot of our population is now aging, right? And they're they're they're falling into a season of their lives.

Candice (25:08)
Yeah.

Alex Evans (25:09)
Mm-hmm.

Daffodil Baez (25:13)
Where they require more support from those so

Alex Evans (25:15)
Mm.

Daffodil Baez (25:16)
by definition, where our population demographics stand, the demand for services is outstripping supply, which is why

Candice (25:26)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Daffodil Baez (25:30)
we have to be creative in how we continue to craft how we do our work. It's why, you know, the growth in technology is.

Is so important and finding better ways and more efficient ways of being able to reach people where they are is so important because the the numbers, right, are just if you have five over here and two over here, right? Like there's there's always going to be a gap. and so recognizing

Candice (25:51)
Mm-hmm.

Daffodil Baez (25:53)
that that gap exists is part of the dialogue. and then you know, having conversations as a team about how do we better serve our particular community with its particular needs.

is an ongoing conversation that has to has to take place.

classify technology as a tool. So it is not in and of itself by itself you know morally good or bad. It's how we choose to use it. and so you know we've been hearing about how technology was gonna make our life easier in healthcare for as long as I've been in in right? Like for decades and decades and decades. And yet

Candice (26:32)
Yes.

Alex Evans (26:32)
Exactly.

Daffodil Baez (26:36)
it just seems to get more complicated.

Candice (26:38)
Yeah.

Daffodil Baez (26:39)
On the other hand,

I am actually a technophile, right? I believe that technology truly can make our our lives better and should be incorporated into the work that we do. Specifically, I believe that technology should

Candice (26:54)
Over.

Daffodil Baez (26:54)
be utilized to amplify the

Alex Evans (26:57)
Mm.

Daffodil Baez (26:58)
expertise and the effort of the expert

Candice (27:00)
Yeah.

Daffodil Baez (27:01)
human that is utilizing that tool.

Alex Evans (27:02)
Hmm.

I love that.

Candice (27:05)
I like how you

Daffodil Baez (27:05)
Okay.

Candice (27:05)
said expert human. Yes, because we're not, you know,

Daffodil Baez (27:08)
But that's

Candice (27:09)
shifting our responsibility from the patient to the computer or to AI. We're saying, you know what? Ultimately,

Daffodil Baez (27:14)
We definitely are not.

Candice (27:15)
we are the experts. I love that. Continue. Yeah.

Daffodil Baez (27:19)
There's no question. And the

thing, by the way, Candace, at which we

Candice (27:23)
in.

Daffodil Baez (27:24)
are the most expert is actually at being human, which is something that

Candice (27:29)
Absolutely.

Daffodil Baez (27:30)
technology will never be able to replicate, right? So

Candice (27:34)
Thank you.

Alex Evans (27:34)
Mm-hmm.

Daffodil Baez (27:36)
yes, things like ambient documentation are fantastic. It's still glitchy, you know, they're still in pilot phases, they're still being refined, but I do think

Candice (27:45)
It would.

Daffodil Baez (27:46)
that something like that is amazing.

Things like you know utilizing AI to help result, whether it's images or pathology or whatever,

Candice (27:56)
We're moving.

Alex Evans (27:56)
Mm-hmm.

Daffodil Baez (27:57)
right? Where you can train these large models to detect, you know, infinitesimally small changes in images and slides and whatnot, makes it easier to diagnose, makes

Candice (28:07)
.

Daffodil Baez (28:08)
it faster to diagnose. And again, if you're talking about having a smaller number of people who are doing the work.

For a larger amount of demand, you need a tool that's going to amplify their efforts. And then you use that

Candice (28:19)
Is there.

Daffodil Baez (28:19)
expert human, right, to look at the outliers or to look at the things that are uncommon, right? And ensure that what the machine has done is accurate and the best thing for the patient. So, yes, I do believe that technology can be quite helpful. On the other hand, we need to remember that again.

Technology is the subordinate, it is the tool, and therefore it should be designed for the human's benefit, right? So just because

Alex Evans (28:45)
Mm-hmm.

Daffodil Baez (28:47)
I can code something, right, does not mean that I should, if it does not make

Candice (28:52)
Everyone.

Daffodil Baez (28:54)
the human's life easier, if it does not r it does not mean that the likelihood of a positive outcome for the human that is under care, the patient that is under care is more likely to be a positive one. Certainly not.

Candice (29:06)
Thank you so

much for saying that.

Daffodil Baez (29:08)
If it's going to cause harm.

Candice (29:10)
Thank you so much for saying that, Daffodil. We have to be so careful that we don't allow AI or the computer to become the patient, you know what I mean? Or the endpoint. We have to keep patient

Daffodil Baez (29:20)
Mm-hmm.

Candice (29:22)
care centered on the patient. I just love that you

Daffodil Baez (29:24)
Right.

Candice (29:25)
say that because as a nurse,

It was just so much, it's like we were babysitting the computer, right?

Daffodil Baez (29:27)
You think

Candice (29:29)
And you would go in and you'd see the patient and they're falling off the bed, they need to use the bed pan and it's like, okay, but this other nurse, my gosh, her documentation is perfect. So I just love that you just hit home on that point. So thank you so much for saying that in the most, you know, just eloquent of ways. Thank you. Yeah.

Daffodil Baez (29:48)
I'll give you I'll give you

Alex Evans (29:49)
I would've

Daffodil Baez (29:49)
a quick anecdote, Candace. there was a there was a there's some research that that's going on right now around sepsis. Right.

Candice (29:56)
Good.

Daffodil Baez (29:57)
So sepsis is one of the the main dangers, right, that a patient who has been hospitalized can undergo. And sepsis, as everyone here knows,

Is an infection that reaches the bloodstream, right? So it becomes a systemic

Alex Evans (30:08)
Right.

Daffodil Baez (30:09)
infection for the patient, can be very risky, things can go go downhill very quickly. Okay. So, you know, they've been looking at well, how can the how can the tech tell us whether or not a patient is more likely

Candice (30:21)
Okay.

Daffodil Baez (30:23)
to develop sepsis or like what stage of sepsis they're in, etc. And what

Candice (30:27)
and

Daffodil Baez (30:27)
was interesting is that they were able to solve, you know, for like 70 or 80 percent of this, right? But there was still this category of patients.

Candice (30:31)
Uh-huh.

Daffodil Baez (30:33)
Where like the tech hadn't been able to identify why they had they had fallen

Candice (30:38)
Mm-hmm.

Daffodil Baez (30:39)
into sepsis or whether they were likely to fall into sepsis. And do you know that when they were evaluating those cases, they found that when the nurse walked into the room or whether the physician walked into the room, they could visually detect better than the automated dashboard, right, about whether

Candice (30:41)
Good. One hour.

Daffodil Baez (30:56)
that patient was falling into sepsis. They could smell, right? Because

Candice (30:59)
Wow,

that's a spit.

Daffodil Baez (30:59)
You know how it is like

you like you know there's a tactile, there's a tactility

Alex Evans (31:03)
Mm-hmm.

Daffodil Baez (31:04)
sometimes to the care that you're delivering, right? That as

Alex Evans (31:06)
Yes.

Daffodil Baez (31:07)
a human you have more sensitivity to that is not going to show up in the data sometimes. So the nurses

Candice (31:11)
Mm-hmm.

Alex Evans (31:11)
Yes.

Daffodil Baez (31:12)
be like, mm-mm, there I can smell that there's something

Candice (31:13)
Something's wrong.

Daffodil Baez (31:15)
off with this patient, right? Like we need to we need to intervene right now. And the dashboard hadn't yet flagged an alert for that patient.

Candice (31:21)
Wow.

Daffodil Baez (31:22)
So

Alex Evans (31:22)
Wow.

Daffodil Baez (31:23)
there I am not concerned about humans losing their job in health care.

Right, there's way too much

Candice (31:28)
Amen.

Daffodil Baez (31:29)
of what we do that cannot be replicated by a machine. And I will just end with a machine is never gonna hold your hand, okay,

Alex Evans (31:39)
Ha ha.

Daffodil Baez (31:40)
the way another human will,

Alex Evans (31:42)
Mm.

Daffodil Baez (31:43)
and and give you, you know, that that overflow of compassion and support.

Candice (31:49)
Yeah.

Alex Evans (31:49)
That's

that's an excellent point. I wanna wrap this up. I know that that

Candice (31:52)
Thank you.

Alex Evans (31:53)
you this such a a a busy life that you have as a CEO, so I don't wanna pull all your time. But there's a couple more things I wanted to just put on. Number one, if you could look over your career and there and there was like has there ever been a time when you said, Hey

This just wasn't worth it. Like listen, every one time when you stopped and said no, I I I don't know why I went down this path.

Candice (32:18)
I want to quit. Y'all can have it.

Daffodil Baez (32:23)
me out there like that, Alex?

Alex Evans (32:25)
I'm just saying and not

Candice (32:26)
Hahaha!

Alex Evans (32:27)
necessarily now, I'm just saying over the you know, you from Texas, Arizona

Daffodil Baez (32:33)
Sure.

Candice (32:33)
Of

course.

Daffodil Baez (32:36)
man, it there have been some very difficult days. There's there's no question about that.

Candice (32:42)
Thank you.

Daffodil Baez (32:44)
you know, we have to deal with all kinds of stuff. I mean you you y'all know how it is, right? You get thrown into natural disasters, weather related events, right? A pandemic, okay, where it's like

Alex Evans (32:56)
Mm. Tell me about it.

Daffodil Baez (32:59)
this I could have chosen an easier path.

Candice (33:02)
Yes.

Alex Evans (33:02)
I could have stayed home

Daffodil Baez (33:02)
Right. There there's definitely

Alex Evans (33:03)
for a year.

Daffodil Baez (33:04)
some days where you're like, I didn't

Candice (33:06)
Yeah.

Daffodil Baez (33:07)
have to work this hard, Lord.

Alex Evans (33:09)
Mm.

Daffodil Baez (33:11)
but

And so sure, there's definitely

Candice (33:17)
Ha ha ha.

Daffodil Baez (33:18)
days where I wonder if, you know, if if the path could have been easier. But

Alex Evans (33:24)
Hm.

Candice (33:24)
Mm-hmm.

Daffodil Baez (33:25)
I don't know that just because the path would have been easier doesn't mean that the

Alex Evans (33:28)
Mm.

Daffodil Baez (33:29)
path would have been

Candice (33:29)
worth it.

Daffodil Baez (33:30)
better.

Candice (33:30)
Yeah. Yeah.

Alex Evans (33:32)
Bingo.

Daffodil Baez (33:33)
It

wouldn't necessarily have

Alex Evans (33:33)
Wow.

Daffodil Baez (33:34)
been a better journey, right? You

Alex Evans (33:36)
Yes.

Candice (33:36)
than that.

Daffodil Baez (33:37)
I I I like to go hiking a lot, right? and so when you're out in the outdoors, right, you don't get to the awe-inspiring vistas, the scenery that

Candice (33:49)
Mmmmm

Daffodil Baez (33:50)
just makes your jaw drop, the one that connects you to the transcendent by staying on the flat path. You have to put some

Alex Evans (33:59)
Wow, speak.

Candice (33:59)
Yes.

Daffodil Baez (34:01)
Okay,

Alex Evans (34:01)
Now you

Daffodil Baez (34:02)
into escalating some altitude, into carrying weight with you, right? Into preparing and packing for a journey in order to get to that summit.

Candice (34:12)
Mm-hmm.

Daffodil Baez (34:13)
So yeah, some days you're like, man, all right. This is

Alex Evans (34:19)
Mm.

Daffodil Baez (34:20)
what we're doing with our lives. we all had choices, and I guess this is the one that I

Candice (34:23)
Yeah.

Daffodil Baez (34:25)
picked.

Alex Evans (34:25)
Mm-hmm.

Daffodil Baez (34:27)
but I do not regret.

Candice (34:29)
Yeah.

Daffodil Baez (34:29)
having

dedicated my life to to the service of others for one

Candice (34:33)
Yeah.

Daffodil Baez (34:34)
minute.

Candice (34:35)
Thank you. Alex,

Alex Evans (34:36)
Wow.

Candice (34:36)
I think that what we're going to use moving forward is that we're hiking again. Anytime it gets tough, I'm going to use your example and I'm going to say, you know what? We're Yes, we're going to the summit.

Alex Evans (34:46)
Yes, we're doing it.

Daffodil Baez (34:47)
Yep, throw your pack on and let's go.

Alex Evans (34:50)
Let's go.

Candice (34:52)
We're going to the summit. Yeah. Love the analogy.

Alex Evans (34:54)
We we wanna wrap up by asking the same c

we wanna wrap up by asking the same question to all of our interviewers and at the end of the day I was just w we're trying to come up with one that that really hits home. So if there was one thing, one if you could perform

Daffodil Baez (35:10)
Mm.

Alex Evans (35:11)
a miracle to change health care today that would fix some something significant, what would be the first thing that you would do?

Daffodil Baez (35:21)
Mmm.

Okay. So in keeping with

In keeping with the f the principle that I ascribe to, which is that people in healthcare are actually the most important component.

Candice (35:44)
Mm-hmm.

Daffodil Baez (35:46)
if I could wave a magic wand, I would vastly

Alex Evans (35:50)
Are you serious?

Daffodil Baez (35:52)
increase the amount of investment that is made into workforce development.

And talent pipelines into the healthcare industry.

Candice (36:03)
Okay.

Daffodil Baez (36:04)
I think that there are we have a danger right now in focusing so much sometimes on the challenges within the industry and the difficulties that you can encounter within the industry that you know we run the risk of discouraging young

Candice (36:23)
It's me.

Daffodil Baez (36:25)
people.

In particular, from being attracted to the industry and deciding to work in healthcare. And the truth of the matter is that, you know, as as I just mentioned, some of the days can be tough, but it truly is extremely rewarding work. It is work where you have no question about whether or not your life made a difference, had an impact, you know, whether your effort has merit. It is morally a very high calling for someone to choose to dedicate their lives to this work.

Candice (36:29)
Thank you. Thank you.

Daffodil Baez (36:54)
And so I wish that we would choose to invest more, fund more scholarships, more training programs, open up more seats in medical schools and nursing schools, and you know, all of the affiliated disciplines to attract more talent to this to this area, which in turn is just going to end up making our communities healthier, happier places. So if I could wave a magic wand, that's what I would.

Candice (36:59)
Yeah.

Yeah.

It sounds like even when you speak that you're speaking of hope, you're speaking of, you know what, hey, we have the potential and the ability to do this, to, you know, impact the younger generation, to say, hey, this is something that is so rewarding, right? And this is a great field to be in because you're not only affecting, you know, your life, obviously, but people's lives. really making an impact on your community. Thank you so much for joining us.

for our very first

Daffodil Baez (37:54)
Okay.

Candice (37:55)
Apex Health podcast. If today's conversation again changed your thinking out there and the universe, as Alex said earlier, or just gave you hope for the future of healthcare, please subscribe, share this podcast with your friends or your family members or colleague and join us every two weeks as we continue these conversations with leaders who are shaping

the future of medicine. Thank you. Thank you so much, Daffodil, for being with us today. Thank you so much.

Daffodil Baez (38:27)
My plant. Stay